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	<title>Comments on: Higher Education?</title>
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	<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/10/01/higher-education/</link>
	<description>A Blog About Teaching in Tough Schools in the UK</description>
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		<title>By: Carnival of Education at Joanne Jacobs</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/10/01/higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-1149</link>
		<dc:creator>Carnival of Education at Joanne Jacobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=233#comment-1149</guid>
		<description>[...] Slip is hosting this week&#8217;s Carnival of Education, which includes Old Andrew on dumbed-down degrees at English universities. A computer science professor recounts trying to teach students &#8212; all [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Slip is hosting this week&#8217;s Carnival of Education, which includes Old Andrew on dumbed-down degrees at English universities. A computer science professor recounts trying to teach students &#8212; all [...]</p>
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		<title>By: john cramer</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/10/01/higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-1147</link>
		<dc:creator>john cramer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 05:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=233#comment-1147</guid>
		<description>Surely in time the people who employ your graduants will know how to disregard your &#039;passes&#039;. 
There must be other effective teaching establishments.
Is not that what the &#039;market&#039; is all about.
It is all a bit odd. Many, many years ago when I was at university the lecturers all acted as if they were doing the students a wearisome favour. I&#039;m not sure if this was more effective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely in time the people who employ your graduants will know how to disregard your &#8216;passes&#8217;.<br />
There must be other effective teaching establishments.<br />
Is not that what the &#8216;market&#8217; is all about.<br />
It is all a bit odd. Many, many years ago when I was at university the lecturers all acted as if they were doing the students a wearisome favour. I&#8217;m not sure if this was more effective.</p>
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		<title>By: boczkowski</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/10/01/higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-1145</link>
		<dc:creator>boczkowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 13:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=233#comment-1145</guid>
		<description>Wow!

I&#039;m a some-time reader of this blog for a few months now and it scares me.
I am not a teacher. I am currently doing a Masters and being a Dad to my 2yr old girl. I was considering looking into the PGCE, but, coupled with my experiences in junior and secondary schools (and one 6th form college), this blog is helping me look for an alternative.

I&#039;ve taught a few workshops and have run a few arts/creative projects in these institutins and it was bloody hard work to get anyone to do anything because of the hurdles described in the above post and others that have gone before.

During the course of my MA, I&#039;ve seen the antics above every week.

It is very, very sad.  Degrees are becoming worthless almost due to the ubiquity of them, same with A levels. The student&#039;s feelings of entitlement are joy to behold when witnessed first hand. They really are.

I don&#039;t want to come home and feel like I could write things such as Mimi&#039;s comment (&#039;I can’t take another day like today&#039;).

Good luck all of you - you deserve better.

Bocz</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a some-time reader of this blog for a few months now and it scares me.<br />
I am not a teacher. I am currently doing a Masters and being a Dad to my 2yr old girl. I was considering looking into the PGCE, but, coupled with my experiences in junior and secondary schools (and one 6th form college), this blog is helping me look for an alternative.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve taught a few workshops and have run a few arts/creative projects in these institutins and it was bloody hard work to get anyone to do anything because of the hurdles described in the above post and others that have gone before.</p>
<p>During the course of my MA, I&#8217;ve seen the antics above every week.</p>
<p>It is very, very sad.  Degrees are becoming worthless almost due to the ubiquity of them, same with A levels. The student&#8217;s feelings of entitlement are joy to behold when witnessed first hand. They really are.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to come home and feel like I could write things such as Mimi&#8217;s comment (&#8217;I can’t take another day like today&#8217;).</p>
<p>Good luck all of you &#8211; you deserve better.</p>
<p>Bocz</p>
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		<title>By: Mimi</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/10/01/higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-1143</link>
		<dc:creator>Mimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=233#comment-1143</guid>
		<description>Agreed. I&#039;ve only been here a month and already can see every one of OldAndrew&#039;s posts coming true. Positives (for there are some) and negatives alike. 

The education system is sick and needs help before it gets worse (if worse is even a possibility--after one of my lessons today, I somehow doubt it). And I&#039;m deeply saddened to hear that higher ed is going down, too. Though, with such candidates as the Typical Students mentioned here, I guess there&#039;s really no other option.

In the US a Bachelors degree is only slightly better than a high school diploma due to the dumbing down of courses. I would hate to think the same is happening here. 

So how do we change the system? Please tell me, in six easy steps, because I can&#039;t take another day like today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed. I&#8217;ve only been here a month and already can see every one of OldAndrew&#8217;s posts coming true. Positives (for there are some) and negatives alike. </p>
<p>The education system is sick and needs help before it gets worse (if worse is even a possibility&#8211;after one of my lessons today, I somehow doubt it). And I&#8217;m deeply saddened to hear that higher ed is going down, too. Though, with such candidates as the Typical Students mentioned here, I guess there&#8217;s really no other option.</p>
<p>In the US a Bachelors degree is only slightly better than a high school diploma due to the dumbing down of courses. I would hate to think the same is happening here. </p>
<p>So how do we change the system? Please tell me, in six easy steps, because I can&#8217;t take another day like today.</p>
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		<title>By: oldandrew</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/10/01/higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-1141</link>
		<dc:creator>oldandrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 19:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=233#comment-1141</guid>
		<description>Duncan,

I never cease to be amazed at your capacity to believe that when people&#039;s experience does&#039;t match your ideology, then it must be their experience that is mere &quot;opinion&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duncan,</p>
<p>I never cease to be amazed at your capacity to believe that when people&#8217;s experience does&#8217;t match your ideology, then it must be their experience that is mere &#8220;opinion&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/10/01/higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-1139</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 19:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=233#comment-1139</guid>
		<description>Perhaps this blog needs to be renamed &#039;Grumpy Young Men&#039;?

I only dip in every now and then, but it seems to get more and more reactionary and opinion has so overwhelmed fact as to render it mostly ficticious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps this blog needs to be renamed &#8216;Grumpy Young Men&#8217;?</p>
<p>I only dip in every now and then, but it seems to get more and more reactionary and opinion has so overwhelmed fact as to render it mostly ficticious.</p>
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		<title>By: Batfink</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/10/01/higher-education/comment-page-1/#comment-1138</link>
		<dc:creator>Batfink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 18:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=233#comment-1138</guid>
		<description>Things appear to have got worse since I finished my Ph.D.  I only got accused of racism once by some overseas students who had both handed in identical drawings on a CAD course.  I laughed at them.  I also experienced some fail grades I handed out changed to passes.  GRRR.

The dumbing down at university is one of the reasons I left HE and became a Secondary teacher.  I had become disillusioned by students with A-level maths who could not do maths (although, in fairness, the top students were still very good).  It was only when I got down here in the thick of things that I realised it was, to a large extent, the system of getting students qualifications, rather than teaching subjects, that was failing the students and giving students false expectations.  

With regards to tuition fees it needs spelling out to HE students that they buy an opportunity to read for a degree, it doesn&#039;t buy them the degree.

The sad result of all the dumbing down, of course, is for a degree to now be needed where before A-levels were and a Masters where a Bachelors would have done.  For example to become a chartered engineer now requires a MEng or MSc for the fresh graduates, when I graduated, not so long ago, all I needed was my BEng(Hons).

I&#039;ll stop ranting now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Things appear to have got worse since I finished my Ph.D.  I only got accused of racism once by some overseas students who had both handed in identical drawings on a CAD course.  I laughed at them.  I also experienced some fail grades I handed out changed to passes.  GRRR.</p>
<p>The dumbing down at university is one of the reasons I left HE and became a Secondary teacher.  I had become disillusioned by students with A-level maths who could not do maths (although, in fairness, the top students were still very good).  It was only when I got down here in the thick of things that I realised it was, to a large extent, the system of getting students qualifications, rather than teaching subjects, that was failing the students and giving students false expectations.  </p>
<p>With regards to tuition fees it needs spelling out to HE students that they buy an opportunity to read for a degree, it doesn&#8217;t buy them the degree.</p>
<p>The sad result of all the dumbing down, of course, is for a degree to now be needed where before A-levels were and a Masters where a Bachelors would have done.  For example to become a chartered engineer now requires a MEng or MSc for the fresh graduates, when I graduated, not so long ago, all I needed was my BEng(Hons).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll stop ranting now.</p>
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