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	<title>Comments on: Group-Work</title>
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	<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/08/03/group-work/</link>
	<description>A Blog About Teaching in Tough Schools in the UK</description>
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		<title>By: Granny Smythe</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/08/03/group-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1040</link>
		<dc:creator>Granny Smythe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=222#comment-1040</guid>
		<description>I often agree with Lily but I must say I don&#039;t find the tone of the blog is depressed.

The best thing about the TES website for most of my career and for this website for however long it has been going is it does make me feel like I&#039;m not alone and that gives me strength to keep going and also to not blame myself for all the craziness. 

I ran a website for pgce students for a couple of years just because I thought I&#039;d get to them before the loonies in the teacher training system did and show them there was an alternative way of looking at things before they were brain washed, but it was too much work and I was burning myself out so I gave it up.

[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us &#039;0 which is not a hashcash value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I often agree with Lily but I must say I don&#8217;t find the tone of the blog is depressed.</p>
<p>The best thing about the TES website for most of my career and for this website for however long it has been going is it does make me feel like I&#8217;m not alone and that gives me strength to keep going and also to not blame myself for all the craziness. </p>
<p>I ran a website for pgce students for a couple of years just because I thought I&#8217;d get to them before the loonies in the teacher training system did and show them there was an alternative way of looking at things before they were brain washed, but it was too much work and I was burning myself out so I gave it up.</p>
<p>[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us &#8216;0 which is not a hashcash value.</p>
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		<title>By: Snuffy</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/08/03/group-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1038</link>
		<dc:creator>Snuffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=222#comment-1038</guid>
		<description>You aren&#039;t depressed. You just speak with passion. And that&#039;s because you love what you do. I wish people could see the difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You aren&#8217;t depressed. You just speak with passion. And that&#8217;s because you love what you do. I wish people could see the difference.</p>
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		<title>By: Lilyofthefield</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/08/03/group-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1037</link>
		<dc:creator>Lilyofthefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 21:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=222#comment-1037</guid>
		<description>&quot;As long as even one teacher realises “I am not alone&quot; ...  then my blog will have done some good.&quot;
Gawd bless you, Sir.

Another thought on the subject is that the sort of person who is likely to take enough of an interest in their kids&#039; education to have got them into a decent school, may well presume that the status quo at the school their kids attend is general, with hellholes being few and extreme cases.  The parents of kids at hellholes, although they might not like what they&#039;ve got, are nonetheless stuck with it and often don&#039;t feel empowered enough to complain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As long as even one teacher realises “I am not alone&#8221; &#8230;  then my blog will have done some good.&#8221;<br />
Gawd bless you, Sir.</p>
<p>Another thought on the subject is that the sort of person who is likely to take enough of an interest in their kids&#8217; education to have got them into a decent school, may well presume that the status quo at the school their kids attend is general, with hellholes being few and extreme cases.  The parents of kids at hellholes, although they might not like what they&#8217;ve got, are nonetheless stuck with it and often don&#8217;t feel empowered enough to complain.</p>
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		<title>By: SchoolFinder Blog &#187; Educational Leadership Part II</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/08/03/group-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1036</link>
		<dc:creator>SchoolFinder Blog &#187; Educational Leadership Part II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=222#comment-1036</guid>
		<description>[...] post is a humorous account of the pointlessness of problems inherent with trying to make students do groups work. He makes a [...]

[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The comment&#039;s server IP (216.168.33.11) doesn&#039;t match the comment&#039;s URL host IP () and so is spam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post is a humorous account of the pointlessness of problems inherent with trying to make students do groups work. He makes a [...]</p>
<p>[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The comment&#8217;s server IP (216.168.33.11) doesn&#8217;t match the comment&#8217;s URL host IP () and so is spam.</p>
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		<title>By: oldandrew</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/08/03/group-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1035</link>
		<dc:creator>oldandrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=222#comment-1035</guid>
		<description>Well my point is that we have to push those with the power to change things, and we have to take some of that power for ourselves. We also need to raise our voices when people waste our time with that &quot;the teacher must be at fault&quot; stuff that people always come up with when they want to avoid the truth of what&#039;s happening.

As long as even one teacher realises &quot;I am not alone&quot; and decides to express their opinion publicly then my blog will have done some good. I also want to encourage  people committed to change to start rising up the ranks (rather than giving up before they are 30) and running schools. Box of chocolates to the first person who uses one of my blog posts in INSET training (but you will have to prove it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well my point is that we have to push those with the power to change things, and we have to take some of that power for ourselves. We also need to raise our voices when people waste our time with that &#8220;the teacher must be at fault&#8221; stuff that people always come up with when they want to avoid the truth of what&#8217;s happening.</p>
<p>As long as even one teacher realises &#8220;I am not alone&#8221; and decides to express their opinion publicly then my blog will have done some good. I also want to encourage  people committed to change to start rising up the ranks (rather than giving up before they are 30) and running schools. Box of chocolates to the first person who uses one of my blog posts in INSET training (but you will have to prove it).</p>
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		<title>By: Lilyofthefield</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/08/03/group-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1034</link>
		<dc:creator>Lilyofthefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=222#comment-1034</guid>
		<description>It isn&#039;t the reality for lots of people though.  At Leafy Lane Grammar, the teachers used to presume I made up Tales From The Crypt for the purpose of entertaining them.  Just on the subject of group work, I&#039;ve taught in schools where group work is a guaranteed success.  They&#039;re not teaching each other:  they&#039;re applying the skills I have already taught them to work through a task.  They are in school:  they expect to work and their work ethic and self-esteem drive them forward.  Anecdotes of group work gone seriously pear-shaped only lead them to cast nasturtiums on the classroom management of the teacher or failure to apply a sanction that bites:  a phone call home or a detention!

Compare that with the carefully-planned, time-consumingly-resourced and earnest efforts of teachers at Hell High, who have been told they will do practicals/group work in x% of their lessons, and invariably watch that time and effort go to shit.  They KNOW what the problem is but more importantly they know WHOSE the problem is:  theirs.  Until is becomes the problem of someone who has the power to change things, that&#039;s exactly where it will stay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It isn&#8217;t the reality for lots of people though.  At Leafy Lane Grammar, the teachers used to presume I made up Tales From The Crypt for the purpose of entertaining them.  Just on the subject of group work, I&#8217;ve taught in schools where group work is a guaranteed success.  They&#8217;re not teaching each other:  they&#8217;re applying the skills I have already taught them to work through a task.  They are in school:  they expect to work and their work ethic and self-esteem drive them forward.  Anecdotes of group work gone seriously pear-shaped only lead them to cast nasturtiums on the classroom management of the teacher or failure to apply a sanction that bites:  a phone call home or a detention!</p>
<p>Compare that with the carefully-planned, time-consumingly-resourced and earnest efforts of teachers at Hell High, who have been told they will do practicals/group work in x% of their lessons, and invariably watch that time and effort go to shit.  They KNOW what the problem is but more importantly they know WHOSE the problem is:  theirs.  Until is becomes the problem of someone who has the power to change things, that&#8217;s exactly where it will stay.</p>
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		<title>By: oldandrew</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/08/03/group-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1033</link>
		<dc:creator>oldandrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=222#comment-1033</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not despairing. The point of all this is to change it. The problem we have in schools is the belief that this is all there can be so we&#039;d better put a brave face on it. The point of the blog is to point out that far from being inevitable this is an absurdity, that to get to where we are has taken a lot of people, over a lot of years being very, very stupid. I want to help people believe in change, and the biggest obstacle to change is in my view the denial of the current reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not despairing. The point of all this is to change it. The problem we have in schools is the belief that this is all there can be so we&#8217;d better put a brave face on it. The point of the blog is to point out that far from being inevitable this is an absurdity, that to get to where we are has taken a lot of people, over a lot of years being very, very stupid. I want to help people believe in change, and the biggest obstacle to change is in my view the denial of the current reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Lilyofthefield</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/08/03/group-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1032</link>
		<dc:creator>Lilyofthefield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=222#comment-1032</guid>
		<description>Do you know what I think is wrong with your blog, oldandrew?  You know by now that having taught in one of the nationally bottom-ten inner-city comps for many years (as well as very much nicer schools) I recognise with startling clarity everything you describe in your blog as factually accurate and devoid of emotional exaggeration.  What&#039;s wrong is that you sound depressed, despairing and frustrated by it all to the point where you are very near to washing your hands of the whole thing.  As I did :)

I think many teachers who recognise similar situations in their own careers resent or fear your bitter despair.  It makes them sound as if they are whistling in the dark, pissing in the rain.  Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  Wasting their time.  Fooling no-one but themselves that anything they do will &quot;make a difference&quot; and affirm their identity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you know what I think is wrong with your blog, oldandrew?  You know by now that having taught in one of the nationally bottom-ten inner-city comps for many years (as well as very much nicer schools) I recognise with startling clarity everything you describe in your blog as factually accurate and devoid of emotional exaggeration.  What&#8217;s wrong is that you sound depressed, despairing and frustrated by it all to the point where you are very near to washing your hands of the whole thing.  As I did <img src='http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I think many teachers who recognise similar situations in their own careers resent or fear your bitter despair.  It makes them sound as if they are whistling in the dark, pissing in the rain.  Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  Wasting their time.  Fooling no-one but themselves that anything they do will &#8220;make a difference&#8221; and affirm their identity.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/08/03/group-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1028</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=222#comment-1028</guid>
		<description>I love the humor. I have actually had students learn something in group work, but like everything else one size does not fit all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the humor. I have actually had students learn something in group work, but like everything else one size does not fit all.</p>
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		<title>By: Granny Smythe</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2008/08/03/group-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1027</link>
		<dc:creator>Granny Smythe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/?p=222#comment-1027</guid>
		<description>Brilliant!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliant!</p>
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