Comments on: The Two Discipline Systems http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems/ A Blog About Teaching in Tough Schools in the UK Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:03:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: oldandrew http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems/#comment-930 oldandrew Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:33:12 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems-2/#comment-930 I have now found out that in the US "strategic ignoring" is called "extinction": http://www.afcec.org/tipsforteachers/tips_c3.html A friend of mine who is a teacher (at a good school) was convinced that I must have made up the whole concept for satirical purposes. I have now found out that in the US “strategic ignoring” is called “extinction”:

http://www.afcec.org/tipsforteachers/tips_c3.html

A friend of mine who is a teacher (at a good school) was convinced that I must have made up the whole concept for satirical purposes.

]]> By: oldandrew http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems/#comment-861 oldandrew Mon, 26 May 2008 09:58:41 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems-2/#comment-861 Thank you. The suggestion that poor behaviour is at root a result of poor teaching is the big lie of behaviour management. A lesson a student doesn't enjoy might provide a motive (although even that doesn't mean that every lesson should be enjoyable, some things just aren't) but it doesn't provide means or opportunity. Nine times out of ten it doesn't even provide a motive and you can tell that a student is going to kick off long before you have even started any actual teaching. Thank you.

The suggestion that poor behaviour is at root a result of poor teaching is the big lie of behaviour management. A lesson a student doesn’t enjoy might provide a motive (although even that doesn’t mean that every lesson should be enjoyable, some things just aren’t) but it doesn’t provide means or opportunity. Nine times out of ten it doesn’t even provide a motive and you can tell that a student is going to kick off long before you have even started any actual teaching.

]]> By: Melica http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems/#comment-860 Melica Mon, 26 May 2008 08:03:19 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems-2/#comment-860 Cheers for 're-releasing' all these posts: I'm not sure whether to be reassured or disheartened that my experience is very common - but at least I can see that it's not 'my fault' although I evidently have an effect on behaviour. Strikes me that if poor behaviour was mainly due to poor teaching then we'd start off with reasonable behaviour which would go off as the children were progressively affected by the teaching. Instead the children come in to lessons with new teachers ready and prepared to test them to destruction! Cheers for ‘re-releasing’ all these posts: I’m not sure whether to be reassured or disheartened that my experience is very common - but at least I can see that it’s not ‘my fault’ although I evidently have an effect on behaviour.
Strikes me that if poor behaviour was mainly due to poor teaching then we’d start off with reasonable behaviour which would go off as the children were progressively affected by the teaching. Instead the children come in to lessons with new teachers ready and prepared to test them to destruction!

]]> By: Lou Mellors http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems/#comment-792 Lou Mellors Sat, 19 Apr 2008 21:16:19 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems-2/#comment-792 I love your blog because you explain my exact experiences so well and it is reassuring to realise that this is so often what happens and I am not going mad. I love your blog because you explain my exact experiences so well and it is reassuring to realise that this is so often what happens and I am not going mad.

]]> By: Eileen http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems/#comment-791 Eileen Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:16:05 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems-2/#comment-791 WOW, does this article ever hit the nail on the head! I think you've clearly articulated exactly the management problems and administration attitudes characteristic of MOST schools, good AND bad! Eileen Dedicated Elementary Teacher Overseas elementaryteacher.wordpress.com WOW, does this article ever hit the nail on the head! I think you’ve clearly articulated exactly the management problems and administration attitudes characteristic of MOST schools, good AND bad!

Eileen
Dedicated Elementary Teacher Overseas
elementaryteacher.wordpress.com

]]> By: Visiting Teacher http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems/#comment-718 Visiting Teacher Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:27:58 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems-2/#comment-718 Thank you for the excellent post. I came to the UK to teach. I was prepared for bad students. But I was not prepared for the horrible head teachers you have. What you wrote is EXACTLY what I experienced. Thank you for the excellent post.

I came to the UK to teach. I was prepared for bad students. But I was not prepared for the horrible head teachers you have.

What you wrote is EXACTLY what I experienced.

]]> By: Will Jackson http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems/#comment-717 Will Jackson Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:44:05 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems-2/#comment-717 This is a fantastic blog! Thanks for finding the time and the patience to write about all this. All I have to add is that what is bad for your psychological health will, in the end, undermine your physical health, or worse. Not news, I know. This is a fantastic blog! Thanks for finding the time and the patience to write about all this. All I have to add is that what is bad for your psychological health will, in the end, undermine your physical health, or worse. Not news, I know.

]]> By: lilyofthefieldx http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems/#comment-716 lilyofthefieldx Sun, 25 Nov 2007 20:33:46 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems-2/#comment-716 I feel acutely for the NQT in our dept who has been told that he is a whiner with poor classroom management because he enforces the sanctions system as it appears in the handbook and on the notices on every classroom wall. He has been asked to stop sending yellow incident reports to the LEA. The last one was because a pupil stamped on his foot because he blocked the dorrway to an out-of-bounds area; the previous one was that he had been threatened and abused by a Year 10 pupil. It's not that he's the only one these happen to: it's just that in his innocence he thought the sanctions system existed to support teachers and discipline errant pupils. I feel acutely for the NQT in our dept who has been told that he is a whiner with poor classroom management because he enforces the sanctions system as it appears in the handbook and on the notices on every classroom wall.

He has been asked to stop sending yellow incident reports to the LEA. The last one was because a pupil stamped on his foot because he blocked the dorrway to an out-of-bounds area; the previous one was that he had been threatened and abused by a Year 10 pupil.

It’s not that he’s the only one these happen to: it’s just that in his innocence he thought the sanctions system existed to support teachers and discipline errant pupils.

]]> By: Anony http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems/#comment-715 Anony Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:59:12 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems-2/#comment-715 "it soon becomes clear that every teacher enforcing the rules rigorously, or worse, expecting school managers to support them with enforcing the rules, is incompetent and unable to relate to children" Very well said, the school discipline system becomes a literal paper tiger, and any referrals are seen as an excuse by SMT to view the teacher with suspicion. “it soon becomes clear that every teacher enforcing the rules rigorously, or worse, expecting school managers to support them with enforcing the rules, is incompetent and unable to relate to children”

Very well said, the school discipline system becomes a literal paper tiger, and any referrals are seen as an excuse by SMT to view the teacher with suspicion.

]]> By: Francis Farrell http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems/#comment-714 Francis Farrell Sun, 25 Nov 2007 10:08:48 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/24/the-two-discipline-systems-2/#comment-714 Consistency is so important for effective discipline: in the individual classroom and across the school as a whole. It's not the severityof the consequece that is important but the certainty in the pupil's mind that there will BE a consequence. If you look on my blog you will see I have a link to a very good website (in my opinion) on how to manage the classroom. Consistency is so important for effective discipline: in the individual classroom and across the school as a whole. It’s not the severityof the consequece that is important but the certainty in the pupil’s mind that there will BE a consequence.

If you look on my blog you will see I have a link to a very good website (in my opinion) on how to manage the classroom.

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