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	<title>Comments on: My Dream School: Part 2</title>
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	<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2/</link>
	<description>A Blog About Teaching in Tough Schools in the UK</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: oldandrew</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2/#comment-790</link>
		<dc:creator>oldandrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 14:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2-2/#comment-790</guid>
		<description>I have no worry about being thought of as unimaginative. I'm not into reinventing the wheel, I'm more concerned with the people who are systematically pulling the wheels off of our education system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no worry about being thought of as unimaginative. I&#8217;m not into reinventing the wheel, I&#8217;m more concerned with the people who are systematically pulling the wheels off of our education system.</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2/#comment-787</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2-2/#comment-787</guid>
		<description>That is enormously unimaginative.  And wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is enormously unimaginative.  And wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: oldandrew</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2/#comment-789</link>
		<dc:creator>oldandrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 06:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2-2/#comment-789</guid>
		<description>I'm sorry but saying something isn't controversial doesn't make that the case.

Students (or indeed people generally) learn best by being directly taught by an expert teacher, not from interaction with their peers particularly, if those peers are at radically different ability levels.

Mixed ability teaching isn't "hard" it is impossible. Most books on how do it describe groupwork, discussion, separate activities, everything but actual teaching. It is impossible to stand in front of a class and simultaneously explain 5 different things.

And please don't tell me that setting encourages bullying and division. There is nothing worse for causing humiliation than putting in kids who can barely write their names in with high achievers. The most able often feel embarrassed to achieve, the least able feel humiliated by being unable to keep up. 

And finally, I'm no advocate of selection but we are in a disasterous situation if it becomes a "boo-word" that can be blindly applied to anything as a criticism. I would sooner have selection than universal mixed ability teaching, even if it meant I ended up teaching the rejected in a secondary modern. Mixed ability grouping is about dragging down high achievers while simultaneously demotivating the weakest. it is usually done because the time-tablers don't have the brains to group people any other way and because it helps bad teachers off the hook of having to advance all their classes rather than just the median child.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry but saying something isn&#8217;t controversial doesn&#8217;t make that the case.</p>
<p>Students (or indeed people generally) learn best by being directly taught by an expert teacher, not from interaction with their peers particularly, if those peers are at radically different ability levels.</p>
<p>Mixed ability teaching isn&#8217;t &#8220;hard&#8221; it is impossible. Most books on how do it describe groupwork, discussion, separate activities, everything but actual teaching. It is impossible to stand in front of a class and simultaneously explain 5 different things.</p>
<p>And please don&#8217;t tell me that setting encourages bullying and division. There is nothing worse for causing humiliation than putting in kids who can barely write their names in with high achievers. The most able often feel embarrassed to achieve, the least able feel humiliated by being unable to keep up. </p>
<p>And finally, I&#8217;m no advocate of selection but we are in a disasterous situation if it becomes a &#8220;boo-word&#8221; that can be blindly applied to anything as a criticism. I would sooner have selection than universal mixed ability teaching, even if it meant I ended up teaching the rejected in a secondary modern. Mixed ability grouping is about dragging down high achievers while simultaneously demotivating the weakest. it is usually done because the time-tablers don&#8217;t have the brains to group people any other way and because it helps bad teachers off the hook of having to advance all their classes rather than just the median child.</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2/#comment-786</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2-2/#comment-786</guid>
		<description>Ah right - I heard this proposal came up at the NUT conference this year, so you could be in luck!  I've no particular objection to having specialists teach about their faiths, in that respect.  

I think ability setting is an evil to be avoided where possible (and I know this is where our greatest difference lies).  I also concede it is an evil that is not always possible to avoid, and your subject may be one such place.  But I don't think it should ever be aspired to.

It is not controversial educational theory to suggest that high-flying students achieve deep learning from teaching a subject (or, rather, explaining it to others) - nor is it especially controversial to suggest that all students learn better from their peers than they do from you or me (the problem is usually WHAT they are learning!)  Therefore it is only slightly controversial to combine the two and say - where possible - mixed ability teaching, properly managed, offers the best chance to encourage the learning of the least able and stretch the most able.  It can be problematic in some subjects when the distance is too vast (and that, I assume is why some setting is inevitable in the likes of Maths) but the problem is usually not the mixture of abilities, but the behaviour issue.  But of course, taking the high-flyers out leaves those students who wish to work but struggle with those who aren't fussed, further disadvantaging the former.  

Mixed ability teaching is very hard, and I'm by no means claiming to be great at it (indeed I've had students complain - normally too late for me to do anything about it - that I've pitched things too high for them, etc.)  But it is better.  Setting labels students, encourages bullying, division, bad behaviour (yes, it encourages bad behaviour) and is effectively selection under one roof - though it is better, in that regard, than streaming across the board.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah right - I heard this proposal came up at the NUT conference this year, so you could be in luck!  I&#8217;ve no particular objection to having specialists teach about their faiths, in that respect.  </p>
<p>I think ability setting is an evil to be avoided where possible (and I know this is where our greatest difference lies).  I also concede it is an evil that is not always possible to avoid, and your subject may be one such place.  But I don&#8217;t think it should ever be aspired to.</p>
<p>It is not controversial educational theory to suggest that high-flying students achieve deep learning from teaching a subject (or, rather, explaining it to others) - nor is it especially controversial to suggest that all students learn better from their peers than they do from you or me (the problem is usually WHAT they are learning!)  Therefore it is only slightly controversial to combine the two and say - where possible - mixed ability teaching, properly managed, offers the best chance to encourage the learning of the least able and stretch the most able.  It can be problematic in some subjects when the distance is too vast (and that, I assume is why some setting is inevitable in the likes of Maths) but the problem is usually not the mixture of abilities, but the behaviour issue.  But of course, taking the high-flyers out leaves those students who wish to work but struggle with those who aren&#8217;t fussed, further disadvantaging the former.  </p>
<p>Mixed ability teaching is very hard, and I&#8217;m by no means claiming to be great at it (indeed I&#8217;ve had students complain - normally too late for me to do anything about it - that I&#8217;ve pitched things too high for them, etc.)  But it is better.  Setting labels students, encourages bullying, division, bad behaviour (yes, it encourages bad behaviour) and is effectively selection under one roof - though it is better, in that regard, than streaming across the board.</p>
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		<title>By: oldandrew</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2/#comment-788</link>
		<dc:creator>oldandrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 05:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2-2/#comment-788</guid>
		<description>My ideas about RE set out who would teach it, not who would learn it.

I advocated setting by ability in most subjects. I even said it should replace teaching students in age groups. However, for timetabling purposes it might be necessary to identify a top stream for Latin and Greek.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My ideas about RE set out who would teach it, not who would learn it.</p>
<p>I advocated setting by ability in most subjects. I even said it should replace teaching students in age groups. However, for timetabling purposes it might be necessary to identify a top stream for Latin and Greek.</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2/#comment-785</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2-2/#comment-785</guid>
		<description>a) I like your point about academic education.  I see plenty of role for more vocational/practical stuff, but for everybody, not for a lower stream.  (I wish I knew how to rewire a plug for instance, and I'd even trade all my knowledge - such as it is - of academic physics for that skill!)  

b) are you serious about the religion thing?  After all, that means most people won't have any religious education at all, nor know anything about what anybody else believes.  I can't think of any rationale for that.

c) You talked about a top stream (or something like that).  Would you really stream by ability across the board?  

(I'm trying to decide which post to have my go about mixed ability teaching on... still not decided!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a) I like your point about academic education.  I see plenty of role for more vocational/practical stuff, but for everybody, not for a lower stream.  (I wish I knew how to rewire a plug for instance, and I&#8217;d even trade all my knowledge - such as it is - of academic physics for that skill!)  </p>
<p>b) are you serious about the religion thing?  After all, that means most people won&#8217;t have any religious education at all, nor know anything about what anybody else believes.  I can&#8217;t think of any rationale for that.</p>
<p>c) You talked about a top stream (or something like that).  Would you really stream by ability across the board?  </p>
<p>(I&#8217;m trying to decide which post to have my go about mixed ability teaching on&#8230; still not decided!)</p>
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		<title>By: Newsisgood</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2/#comment-710</link>
		<dc:creator>Newsisgood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2-2/#comment-710</guid>
		<description>I would just like to add an unusual note of support: I would love a curriculum that involved plenty of book learning.  I myself have learned everything that is most useful from the study of Greek Philosophy and the Classics.

Making it palatable in a world that generally distrusts learning, however, would be hard.

Regarding RE: it should definitely be taught, but not without including atheism as another perspective on religion.  Also RE should be cross-cultural and take on a view of the whole world and throughout history to be valuable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would just like to add an unusual note of support: I would love a curriculum that involved plenty of book learning.  I myself have learned everything that is most useful from the study of Greek Philosophy and the Classics.</p>
<p>Making it palatable in a world that generally distrusts learning, however, would be hard.</p>
<p>Regarding RE: it should definitely be taught, but not without including atheism as another perspective on religion.  Also RE should be cross-cultural and take on a view of the whole world and throughout history to be valuable.</p>
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		<title>By: oldandrew</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2/#comment-709</link>
		<dc:creator>oldandrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2-2/#comment-709</guid>
		<description>"The media have a bigger influence on life today than organised religion - let's kick RE off the curriculum (keep it as an option in KS4, I guess) and introduce Media Studies as a compulsory subject throughout the school. Let's teach students about the institutions which ACTUALLY shape the world they live in."


It was news to me that we aimed to teach about the institutions rather than the parts of life that the institutions relate to. RE isn't specifically teaching about organised religion anymore than French lessons are about the Oxford French/English Dictionary, Economics lessons are about the Bank of England or Science lessons are about the Royal Society.

I am not misusing "taboo". If we pretend that religion is irrelevant when it is clearly one of the greatest forces in history and in the world today we clearly are suppressing the truth for our own comfort. Something a culture specifically avoids mentioning or acknowledging is a taboo no matter how you dress it up.

You seem very willing to compare religion with the important things we don't explicitly teach. How about looking at things we do teach? Are quadratic equations, the book "Hard Times" and the details of motte and bailey castles really more important to our lives than the religions in our culture?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The media have a bigger influence on life today than organised religion - let&#8217;s kick RE off the curriculum (keep it as an option in KS4, I guess) and introduce Media Studies as a compulsory subject throughout the school. Let&#8217;s teach students about the institutions which ACTUALLY shape the world they live in.&#8221;</p>
<p>It was news to me that we aimed to teach about the institutions rather than the parts of life that the institutions relate to. RE isn&#8217;t specifically teaching about organised religion anymore than French lessons are about the Oxford French/English Dictionary, Economics lessons are about the Bank of England or Science lessons are about the Royal Society.</p>
<p>I am not misusing &#8220;taboo&#8221;. If we pretend that religion is irrelevant when it is clearly one of the greatest forces in history and in the world today we clearly are suppressing the truth for our own comfort. Something a culture specifically avoids mentioning or acknowledging is a taboo no matter how you dress it up.</p>
<p>You seem very willing to compare religion with the important things we don&#8217;t explicitly teach. How about looking at things we do teach? Are quadratic equations, the book &#8220;Hard Times&#8221; and the details of motte and bailey castles really more important to our lives than the religions in our culture?</p>
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		<title>By: MrR</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2/#comment-708</link>
		<dc:creator>MrR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2-2/#comment-708</guid>
		<description>Yes, we do have BITS about TV. Lets have BITS about religion, if it's deemed necessary. The media have a bigger influence on life today than organised religion - let's kick RE off the curriculum (keep it as an option in KS4, I guess) and introduce Media Studies as a compulsory subject throughout the school. Let's teach students about the institutions which ACTUALLY shape the world they live in.

And you are still (deliberately, I assume) misusing the word 'taboo'. Nobody is trying to ban or silence anything or anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, we do have BITS about TV. Lets have BITS about religion, if it&#8217;s deemed necessary. The media have a bigger influence on life today than organised religion - let&#8217;s kick RE off the curriculum (keep it as an option in KS4, I guess) and introduce Media Studies as a compulsory subject throughout the school. Let&#8217;s teach students about the institutions which ACTUALLY shape the world they live in.</p>
<p>And you are still (deliberately, I assume) misusing the word &#8216;taboo&#8217;. Nobody is trying to ban or silence anything or anyone.</p>
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		<title>By: oldandrew</title>
		<link>http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2/#comment-707</link>
		<dc:creator>oldandrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/11/21/my-dream-school-part-2-2/#comment-707</guid>
		<description>"More people watch TV than attend church, and it's clearly an important part of many people's life. We don't have compulsory TV studies. Is TV taboo?"

Actually we do have units about the media as a part of PSHE, and there's also bits of English that seem to be about television. That's without the optional subject of media studies.

And with regard to taboo, then it certainly seems like a taboo if we are willing to learn the history and geography of many different peoples (not to mention the languages and literature of a select few) but not about their religions. To strike out important information about our culture and other cultures certainly strikes me as enforcing a taboo. It also strikes me as dangerous at a time when ignorance and prejudice is so widespread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;More people watch TV than attend church, and it&#8217;s clearly an important part of many people&#8217;s life. We don&#8217;t have compulsory TV studies. Is TV taboo?&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually we do have units about the media as a part of PSHE, and there&#8217;s also bits of English that seem to be about television. That&#8217;s without the optional subject of media studies.</p>
<p>And with regard to taboo, then it certainly seems like a taboo if we are willing to learn the history and geography of many different peoples (not to mention the languages and literature of a select few) but not about their religions. To strike out important information about our culture and other cultures certainly strikes me as enforcing a taboo. It also strikes me as dangerous at a time when ignorance and prejudice is so widespread.</p>
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