Comments on: The F***-Off Factor http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor/ A Blog About Teaching in Tough Schools in the UK Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:44:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Duncan http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor/#comment-763 Duncan Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:15:21 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor-2/#comment-763 Yes, and the two things aren't remotely contradictory, but then you are fond of your straw men! Yes, and the two things aren’t remotely contradictory, but then you are fond of your straw men!

]]> By: oldandrew http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor/#comment-767 oldandrew Sun, 06 Apr 2008 14:55:24 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor-2/#comment-767 <i>I just don’t think one size fits all.</i> Are you not the Duncan who was arguing for mixed ability teaching on another thread just now? I just don’t think one size fits all.

Are you not the Duncan who was arguing for mixed ability teaching on another thread just now?

]]> By: Duncan http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor/#comment-762 Duncan Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:44:49 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor-2/#comment-762 Insofar as I think you should play the situation, then I agree with you. I just don't think one size fits all. Insofar as I think you should play the situation, then I agree with you. I just don’t think one size fits all.

]]> By: oldandrew http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor/#comment-766 oldandrew Sun, 06 Apr 2008 06:08:33 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor-2/#comment-766 Duncan, in a large class in a challenging school the moment one child is seen to get away with swearing at you and not working, they will all start. The sense of power is too great. Duncan,

in a large class in a challenging school the moment one child is seen to get away with swearing at you and not working, they will all start. The sense of power is too great.

]]> By: oldandrew http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor/#comment-764 oldandrew Sun, 06 Apr 2008 05:43:22 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor-2/#comment-764 Pip, I went to a bog standard comprehensive. I never heard of anybody swearing at a teacher. Not even once. I think we all assumed that it would result in expulsion. Pip,

I went to a bog standard comprehensive. I never heard of anybody swearing at a teacher. Not even once. I think we all assumed that it would result in expulsion.

]]> By: Duncan http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor/#comment-761 Duncan Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:30:14 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor-2/#comment-761 It's happened to me twice (from what I can recall) - not those specific words, though it happens often enough to colleagues - but a pointblank refusal to co-operate. On both occasions the response was one of your 'at worst' scenarios. The first occasion that was completely wrong, the second I think I could defend it. The first it was essentially considered to be my fault for letting a situation reach a head and the student was not disciplined at all (probably some sort of half-joking telling off from their course tutor who didn't approve of me anyway, so would probably agree with the student!). The second I chose to do nothing (other than go over the work the student had missed calmly during my break to ensure that they had understood it and got it in their notes). The second student was autistic. It’s happened to me twice (from what I can recall) - not those specific words, though it happens often enough to colleagues - but a pointblank refusal to co-operate.

On both occasions the response was one of your ‘at worst’ scenarios. The first occasion that was completely wrong, the second I think I could defend it. The first it was essentially considered to be my fault for letting a situation reach a head and the student was not disciplined at all (probably some sort of half-joking telling off from their course tutor who didn’t approve of me anyway, so would probably agree with the student!). The second I chose to do nothing (other than go over the work the student had missed calmly during my break to ensure that they had understood it and got it in their notes).

The second student was autistic.

]]> By: Pip http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor/#comment-760 Pip Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:04:47 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor-2/#comment-760 I went to an independent C of E boarding school in the West of England in the 80s. So did my older brother and sister. One day my brother John said f*** off to a science teacher, one of the weaker and less popular teachers in the school. John was at once sent to the Headmaster, where John was forced to explain himself, and was instantly suspended for a week. He did not sleep at the school that night. My mother had to come and collect him that day. Telling a teacher to f*** off was universally understood to be beyond the pale. It was the only such incident I heard of in my entire time at the school, and I was there from the ages of 10 to 18. I went to an independent C of E boarding school in the West of England in the 80s. So did my older brother and sister. One day my brother John said f*** off to a science teacher, one of the weaker and less popular teachers in the school.

John was at once sent to the Headmaster, where John was forced to explain himself, and was instantly suspended for a week. He did not sleep at the school that night. My mother had to come and collect him that day.

Telling a teacher to f*** off was universally understood to be beyond the pale. It was the only such incident I heard of in my entire time at the school, and I was there from the ages of 10 to 18.

]]> By: Lucy http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor/#comment-588 Lucy Sat, 04 Aug 2007 20:25:00 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor-2/#comment-588 The truth threatens many people - you're doing a good job telling it on here. I once had a child sit in my class with F off written on his arm in large capital letters - he kept flashing it at me when asked to write or stop disturbing other children. Senior members of staff believed his story of it actually being 'duck off' that was written (or said they did, he was the school doctor's son), so I got no support in discipline. This was actually a leafy, alternative, independent... I got out, but admire your staying power in far worse situations. I despair at where the system will end up though !? The truth threatens many people - you’re doing a good job telling it on here.

I once had a child sit in my class with F off written on his arm in large capital letters - he kept flashing it at me when asked to write or stop disturbing other children. Senior members of staff believed his story of it actually being ‘duck off’ that was written (or said they did, he was the school doctor’s son), so I got no support in discipline. This was actually a leafy, alternative, independent… I got out, but admire your staying power in far worse situations. I despair at where the system will end up though !?

]]> By: Chemistman http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor/#comment-587 Chemistman Sat, 04 Aug 2007 11:45:59 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor-2/#comment-587 Speaking as a secondary school teacher of 27 years standing, I echo the comments of the writer (who I am reading for the first time now having just found the blog). Though my comprehensive school could be described as "leafy" it is also very large with over 2000 students and the anonymity that can bring. We have a fairly rigid in school exclusion proces whereby if a student seriously steps out of line eg tells you to "fuck off" or even fails to obey your instructions repeatedly then s/he is collected by a duty member of staff and is excluded from the lesson with work given to do. It helps that we have centrally computerised registration and can call for the duty staff member without leaving the room. Result - student is collected, no more time is wasted and the lesson can proceed. This is not a completely foolproof solution but works for 95% of the time. I dont think any system would be able to cope with students (pupils?) who were seriously bonkers. Incidentally - a word about sarcasm - while I am never corrosively sarcastic to students personally, I find that they do have a well developed sense of the ironic, and part of my relationship with a class depends on them being able to understand irony and to some extent sarcasm when applied to institutions or rules. Sarcasm and irony can be used creatively IMHO. Speaking as a secondary school teacher of 27 years standing, I echo the comments of the writer (who I am reading for the first time now having just found the blog). Though my comprehensive school could be described as “leafy” it is also very large with over 2000 students and the anonymity that can bring. We have a fairly rigid in school exclusion proces whereby if a student seriously steps out of line eg tells you to “fuck off” or even fails to obey your instructions repeatedly then s/he is collected by a duty member of staff and is excluded from the lesson with work given to do. It helps that we have centrally computerised registration and can call for the duty staff member without leaving the room. Result - student is collected, no more time is wasted and the lesson can proceed. This is not a completely foolproof solution but works for 95% of the time. I dont think any system would be able to cope with students (pupils?) who were seriously bonkers. Incidentally - a word about sarcasm - while I am never corrosively sarcastic to students personally, I find that they do have a well developed sense of the ironic, and part of my relationship with a class depends on them being able to understand irony and to some extent sarcasm when applied to institutions or rules. Sarcasm and irony can be used creatively IMHO.

]]> By: lilyofthefield http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor/#comment-586 lilyofthefield Fri, 03 Aug 2007 20:19:14 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor-2/#comment-586 Just got back from holiday, jetlagged and needing a laugh. I am of course laughing at you, archie, and presuming that of you teach at all, it is in the kind of leafy-lane top-of-the-league comp I used to or an Independent. Oldandrew echoes my experience of the middle-to-bottom comp precisely, as usual. Just got back from holiday, jetlagged and needing a laugh. I am of course laughing at you, archie, and presuming that of you teach at all, it is in the kind of leafy-lane top-of-the-league comp I used to or an Independent.

Oldandrew echoes my experience of the middle-to-bottom comp precisely, as usual.

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