Comments on: Bad Idea for Dealing with the Behaviour Crisis #5: End Parental Choice http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/04/27/bad-idea-for-dealing-with-the-behaviour-crisis-5-end-parental-choice/ A Blog About Teaching in Tough Schools in the UK Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:08:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: PaulD http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/04/27/bad-idea-for-dealing-with-the-behaviour-crisis-5-end-parental-choice/#comment-511 PaulD Wed, 09 May 2007 10:31:14 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/04/27/bad-idea-for-dealing-with-the-behaviour-crisis-5-end-parental-choice-2/#comment-511 What do you mean "bringing back selection", newsisgood? It already exists. Unless some totalitarian regime (we're almost there) makes it illegal to educate your children privately, it will continue to exist. My neighbour's daughter obviously had no improving effect on the disruptive, disinterested kids around her. What make you think a few more of them - assuming they are all resistant to the gravitational force of troublemakers - will transform the classroom? No, the problem runs far deeper. I suggest, for starters, that the law of the land is applied behind the school gates. What we see on these pages are examples of intimidation, conspiracy, threatening behaviour, libel, and any number of criminal and civil offences that would not be tolerated anywhere in the outside world. I would like to see the full weight of the law brought down on anarchic pupils. They would think very seriously before waging their campaigns of destruction if some of their mates had been locked up for it. It would also teach them the most valuable lesson of their lives. Isn't that what schools are for? What do you mean “bringing back selection”, newsisgood? It already exists. Unless some totalitarian regime (we’re almost there) makes it illegal to educate your children privately, it will continue to exist.

My neighbour’s daughter obviously had no improving effect on the disruptive, disinterested kids around her. What make you think a few more of them - assuming they are all resistant to the gravitational force of troublemakers - will transform the classroom?

No, the problem runs far deeper. I suggest, for starters, that the law of the land is applied behind the school gates.

What we see on these pages are examples of intimidation, conspiracy, threatening behaviour, libel, and any number of criminal and civil offences that would not be tolerated anywhere in the outside world. I would like to see the full weight of the law brought down on anarchic pupils. They would think very seriously before waging their campaigns of destruction if some of their mates had been locked up for it.

It would also teach them the most valuable lesson of their lives. Isn’t that what schools are for?

]]> By: Newsisgood http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/04/27/bad-idea-for-dealing-with-the-behaviour-crisis-5-end-parental-choice/#comment-510 Newsisgood Tue, 08 May 2007 10:33:29 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/04/27/bad-idea-for-dealing-with-the-behaviour-crisis-5-end-parental-choice-2/#comment-510 And henceforth, PaulD, you are bringing back selection - those rich enough can make the choice to move to a new area, and a new school. This means all the poor students will be left behind, with immense peer pressure to be rubbish (no dissenting voices at all). Do we then rename the school as a prison? And henceforth, PaulD, you are bringing back selection - those rich enough can make the choice to move to a new area, and a new school.

This means all the poor students will be left behind, with immense peer pressure to be rubbish (no dissenting voices at all). Do we then rename the school as a prison?

]]> By: PaulD http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/04/27/bad-idea-for-dealing-with-the-behaviour-crisis-5-end-parental-choice/#comment-509 PaulD Fri, 04 May 2007 18:01:36 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/04/27/bad-idea-for-dealing-with-the-behaviour-crisis-5-end-parental-choice-2/#comment-509 "The lowest common denominator will always prevail in schools because the attitudes of the worst behaved kids are enforced with intimidation, social pressures and the every present threat of violence". A first-hand experience tells me this absolutely correct. Newsisgood (above) must be living in a fantasy world if he/she thinks otherwise. My neighbours, a very supportive middle-class family, have nearly bankrupted themselves moving their daughter from the local comp to private school because of the effect it was having on her. Previously a keen and sociable pupil, she quickly deteriorated into a surly, monosyllabic chav (as the father called her) losing all interest in lessons, sport and music. They reckon it was due almost entirely to peer pressure. Within a few weeks of starting at public school, she is back to her old young self - with more enthusiasm for life than ever. I can only assume Newsisgood is working to some idealistic agenda where the real world does not exist. “The lowest common denominator will always prevail in schools because the attitudes of the worst behaved kids are enforced with intimidation, social pressures and the every present threat of violence”.

A first-hand experience tells me this absolutely correct. Newsisgood (above) must be living in a fantasy world if he/she thinks otherwise.

My neighbours, a very supportive middle-class family, have nearly bankrupted themselves moving their daughter from the local comp to private school because of the effect it was having on her. Previously a keen and sociable pupil, she quickly deteriorated into a surly, monosyllabic chav (as the father called her) losing all interest in lessons, sport and music. They reckon it was due almost entirely to peer pressure.

Within a few weeks of starting at public school, she is back to her old young self - with more enthusiasm for life than ever.

I can only assume Newsisgood is working to some idealistic agenda where the real world does not exist.

]]> By: Omri http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/04/27/bad-idea-for-dealing-with-the-behaviour-crisis-5-end-parental-choice/#comment-508 Omri Sun, 29 Apr 2007 03:20:01 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/04/27/bad-idea-for-dealing-with-the-behaviour-crisis-5-end-parental-choice-2/#comment-508 The point of taking away parental choice isn't to deal with the behaviour crisis. It is to cover it up by doing away with schools that contrast too sharply with the squalor. The point of taking away parental choice isn’t to deal with the behaviour crisis. It is to cover it up by doing away with schools that contrast too sharply with the squalor.

]]> By: Newsisgood http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/04/27/bad-idea-for-dealing-with-the-behaviour-crisis-5-end-parental-choice/#comment-507 Newsisgood Sat, 28 Apr 2007 08:08:03 +0000 http://oldandrew.edublogs.org/2007/04/27/bad-idea-for-dealing-with-the-behaviour-crisis-5-end-parental-choice-2/#comment-507 "Of course this is one of those fantasies that flies in the face of human nature." Could you show me some of this human nature, which drives so many of your arguments? You teeter precariously between blaming the students for a bad school (the lowest common denoms making up the majority), and poor management. Do poor students produce poor management and bad schools? Or does poor management accept bad students creating a bad school? Or do bad schools have an aura that attract bad students and management? Surely you are also bringing back selection (argument #2), but simply making middle-class parents worry about the selection by buying new houses, and condeming those without the money to local provision? I am also interested in how you plan to discipline the 'bad schools' full of 'bad students' if you have not introduced more students who want to learn, and would readily display their willingness and create a new peer pressure if allowed to. Would you just send them all to prison for being morally wrong? “Of course this is one of those fantasies that flies in the face of human nature.”

Could you show me some of this human nature, which drives so many of your arguments?

You teeter precariously between blaming the students for a bad school (the lowest common denoms making up the majority), and poor management. Do poor students produce poor management and bad schools? Or does poor management accept bad students creating a bad school? Or do bad schools have an aura that attract bad students and management?

Surely you are also bringing back selection (argument #2), but simply making middle-class parents worry about the selection by buying new houses, and condeming those without the money to local provision?

I am also interested in how you plan to discipline the ‘bad schools’ full of ‘bad students’ if you have not introduced more students who want to learn, and would readily display their willingness and create a new peer pressure if allowed to. Would you just send them all to prison for being morally wrong?

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